OPINION - According to NBC Philadelphia, a couple was arrested after eating at the Lehigh Pub, which has been decimated on Yelp, largely because of this idiotic move.
According to the article, the couple was arrested after they refused to pay a mandatory 18 percent gratuity, which amounted to 16 dollars.
According to the article, the owner admitted that the group waited an unusually long time for the food because the pub was extremely busy. The manager claimed the couple was offered the food for free. The bill, according to the article, was $73.
On what planet does the logic of offering a $73 dollar comp, which was declined, justify going after the couple for paying the $73, but then refusing to pay the "required" $16 tip?
The owner's statement just doesn't make any sense.
To the couple, who must now go to court to fight the charge, some friendly advice. If the owner offers to "comp" your legal fees, run very fast.
According to the article, the police actually charged them with theft because "the gratuity was part of the actual bill." Between the police and the owner, I doubt it would surprise anybody if there will be a vacancy where the Lehigh Pub was very soon.
Advice to the owner. Hire the best darn PR firm you can find and eat a lot of crow. And fast.
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Comments (41)
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Businesses seem to have great difficulty realizing that their customers are their biggest asset. Treat us right and we'll respond in kind. Treat us like crap, and your business will suffer.
Like this one, which just earned itself a reputation NATIONWIDE for providing bad service.
Like this one, which just earned itself a reputation NATIONWIDE for providing bad service.
,
February 11, 2010
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Where is the Yelp.com to rate the Police Force in all of this? And by the way, the reason American service is BETTER (I don't claim the best) than the rest of the world is because of the TIP system. It works because our hard working Servers (and Bartenders) work harder to SERVE because they are incentivized to do so. So please take care of your servers!
However, I can understand the minimum tip requirement for the establishment if they are that busy (others competing for table?), but the restaurant should probably make this point clearly stated going into "the contract" of seating the customer. I believe it is still the establishment's right to seat the customer.
@PainPoint = Poor Police Customer Service
@PainPoint = Poor Restaurant Customer Service
@PainPoint = Poor College students
However, I can understand the minimum tip requirement for the establishment if they are that busy (others competing for table?), but the restaurant should probably make this point clearly stated going into "the contract" of seating the customer. I believe it is still the establishment's right to seat the customer.
@PainPoint = Poor Police Customer Service
@PainPoint = Poor Restaurant Customer Service
@PainPoint = Poor College students
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December 04, 2009
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There was no evidence of a comp being offered (even though there actually WAS at least a comp in the amount of the original tip - I don't think anyone disputes that) and yet you KNOW that they offered 10%? That's no "evidence" of that either.
BTW, it probably wasn't indeed a "23%" tip (at least as I think you mean it). Please go back and read Max's comment back on Nov. 19th. The figures fit, AND supports the owner's comments about comps. They were probably comped twice. Autograts usually include comps unless the management goes back and changes it manually (which I'm not denying that they should have done). However, once you put an autograt on a check, most POS systems lock it into place. If a server forgets to ring something in, the autograt will remain the same unless management goes back and voids out the original autograt and reruns it.
If the students "negotiated", then they need to take a negotiation course at their college. They are almost as bad as the owners when it comes to negotiation.
BTW, it probably wasn't indeed a "23%" tip (at least as I think you mean it). Please go back and read Max's comment back on Nov. 19th. The figures fit, AND supports the owner's comments about comps. They were probably comped twice. Autograts usually include comps unless the management goes back and changes it manually (which I'm not denying that they should have done). However, once you put an autograt on a check, most POS systems lock it into place. If a server forgets to ring something in, the autograt will remain the same unless management goes back and voids out the original autograt and reruns it.
If the students "negotiated", then they need to take a negotiation course at their college. They are almost as bad as the owners when it comes to negotiation.
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December 04, 2009
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It makes no logical sense to comp a $73.00 meal but enforce a $16.00 mandatory gratuity. There was no proof of this offer and I know that the couple offered to leave a 10% gratuity instead of the overinflated 18-23%. The couple tried to negotiate, but hte manager of the Pub refused to compromise. It is unfortunate, bu the Lehigh Pub will probably get MORE business out of this just from curiosity seekers.
The police were wrong in pursuing this. Bethlehem PD are a bunch of Nazi-like militant sheep and I have had a few discussions with them about people illegally parking in front of my business and they were so obnoxious and arrogant that I never bothered to call them again. The police arrested the couple because, as they were quoted saying: "the (tip)amount was on the bill." With that set a precedent has begun: The owner or manager of any restaurant can add whatever he/she wants to on a bill, whether or not that item or service was performed or received, and expect payment for it under the threat of arrest because "it is on the bill" Very scary indeed... Why weren't the owners of the Lehigh Pub arrested for duping the patrons and charging a 23% tip?
The police were wrong in pursuing this. Bethlehem PD are a bunch of Nazi-like militant sheep and I have had a few discussions with them about people illegally parking in front of my business and they were so obnoxious and arrogant that I never bothered to call them again. The police arrested the couple because, as they were quoted saying: "the (tip)amount was on the bill." With that set a precedent has begun: The owner or manager of any restaurant can add whatever he/she wants to on a bill, whether or not that item or service was performed or received, and expect payment for it under the threat of arrest because "it is on the bill" Very scary indeed... Why weren't the owners of the Lehigh Pub arrested for duping the patrons and charging a 23% tip?
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December 02, 2009
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"Not a single witness confirms the manager's story about the offer to comp the guests. It is only the manager saying that".
If this is in response to my mentioning not taking the comp but freaking out about the tip, my comment was basically a response to the original statement in the post that read, "On what planet does the logic of offering a $73 dollar comp, which was declined, justify going after the couple for paying the $73, but then refusing to pay the "required" $16 tip"?
I didn't necessarily accept this as fact, as I clearly said when I wrote, "if it did INDEED go down like that". It was basically just turning the question around.
It sounds very plausible to me though, although I doubt that, considering how clumsy the management was in handling the whole situation, the manager offered to comp the entire meal. It's clear that eventually something WAS comped - something that equalled the tip (according to accounts, the bartender did indeed comp an equivalent amount off of the bill).
I have seen this sort of behavior from guests before. They don't want you to take something off the bill because of a couple of posible motivations. They might want to preserve their grievance and/or they don't want to be seen as someone who's trying to get something for free. I can see this easily happening if the manager offered to comp some of the bill prior to the bartender taking action on his or her own.
I sort of understand the guests' perception that they are still giving a tip to a server that they thought provided poor service. But there's a point when you just let it go. the bartender tried to do this by comping the equivalent amount of the tip (and perhaps he or she was trying to preserve the server's tip because they didn't know whether these guests were acting like spoiled college students, a class of guest that they have probably seen a lot of. Maybe they thought that the server was being unfairly complained against.
But it still goes back to the management not taking care of the situation.
That was a good point about the cops. Makes you wonder if perhaps the students themselves MIGHT have contributed to the situation by their own attitude. Cops usually don't have a lot of tolerance for attitude. The cops MIGHT have overreacted, but the students, convinced of their principles in this situation, clearly pointed out by the fact that they wouldn't take the comp against the tip as something that they couln't stomach,might not have been willing to compromise either.
"Shame on the manager, the staff and the cops for contributing to this PR fiasco. And I DO mean SHAME".
You left out the students. They mishandled the situation as well, perhaps at several points in the whole fiasco.
If this is in response to my mentioning not taking the comp but freaking out about the tip, my comment was basically a response to the original statement in the post that read, "On what planet does the logic of offering a $73 dollar comp, which was declined, justify going after the couple for paying the $73, but then refusing to pay the "required" $16 tip"?
I didn't necessarily accept this as fact, as I clearly said when I wrote, "if it did INDEED go down like that". It was basically just turning the question around.
It sounds very plausible to me though, although I doubt that, considering how clumsy the management was in handling the whole situation, the manager offered to comp the entire meal. It's clear that eventually something WAS comped - something that equalled the tip (according to accounts, the bartender did indeed comp an equivalent amount off of the bill).
I have seen this sort of behavior from guests before. They don't want you to take something off the bill because of a couple of posible motivations. They might want to preserve their grievance and/or they don't want to be seen as someone who's trying to get something for free. I can see this easily happening if the manager offered to comp some of the bill prior to the bartender taking action on his or her own.
I sort of understand the guests' perception that they are still giving a tip to a server that they thought provided poor service. But there's a point when you just let it go. the bartender tried to do this by comping the equivalent amount of the tip (and perhaps he or she was trying to preserve the server's tip because they didn't know whether these guests were acting like spoiled college students, a class of guest that they have probably seen a lot of. Maybe they thought that the server was being unfairly complained against.
But it still goes back to the management not taking care of the situation.
That was a good point about the cops. Makes you wonder if perhaps the students themselves MIGHT have contributed to the situation by their own attitude. Cops usually don't have a lot of tolerance for attitude. The cops MIGHT have overreacted, but the students, convinced of their principles in this situation, clearly pointed out by the fact that they wouldn't take the comp against the tip as something that they couln't stomach,might not have been willing to compromise either.
"Shame on the manager, the staff and the cops for contributing to this PR fiasco. And I DO mean SHAME".
You left out the students. They mishandled the situation as well, perhaps at several points in the whole fiasco.
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November 26, 2009
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Not a single witness confirms the manager's story about the offer to comp the guests. It is only the manager saying that.
But forget the manager for a moment..why didn;t the cops just let this one go?
Y'know there was a time, even in PA, where common sense would govern a situation like this...the cops or sherif would be called to a scene , take statements and then decide if this was worth pursuing as an arrest or if maybe just a little calming down was in order.
So I blame the manager, the staff and the COPS for making such a complete and utter mess of this.
Sure..I know..everyone was just " following the rules"
like sheep..unable to use their own good judgement..or stop this stupid, petty manager from making an ass of himself or calling INTERNATIONAL attention to the case and of course the Lehigh Pub..which should be closed, renovated and UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT before Christmas.
That sonmeone hasn;t driven a truck throuygh the place already is a testament to the patience of the patrons
and/or the fact that half the town must be on anti-depressives since they have put up with this Pub, and it's practices, it's over=priced food and poor service for FAR TOO LONG.
Shame on the manager, the staff and the cops for contributing to this PR fiasco. And I DO mean SHAME.
They should all be sacked for incompetence.
But forget the manager for a moment..why didn;t the cops just let this one go?
Y'know there was a time, even in PA, where common sense would govern a situation like this...the cops or sherif would be called to a scene , take statements and then decide if this was worth pursuing as an arrest or if maybe just a little calming down was in order.
So I blame the manager, the staff and the COPS for making such a complete and utter mess of this.
Sure..I know..everyone was just " following the rules"
like sheep..unable to use their own good judgement..or stop this stupid, petty manager from making an ass of himself or calling INTERNATIONAL attention to the case and of course the Lehigh Pub..which should be closed, renovated and UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT before Christmas.
That sonmeone hasn;t driven a truck throuygh the place already is a testament to the patience of the patrons
and/or the fact that half the town must be on anti-depressives since they have put up with this Pub, and it's practices, it's over=priced food and poor service for FAR TOO LONG.
Shame on the manager, the staff and the cops for contributing to this PR fiasco. And I DO mean SHAME.
They should all be sacked for incompetence.
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November 25, 2009
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this incident is outrageous beyond words. how embarrassing for the owner(s). with that said, i have to comment on DEX'S two cents. calling a waitress a "sissy" for not having the courage to ask their boss for a raise and saying that we hold out our hands and beg from the customer like a "leper" is right up there as far as ignorant statements go. people go to restaurants/bars for many reasons. to relax. for entertainment. to dine. for convenience. i could go on. the point is that the owner and his/her employees provide these things for the guest, and the guest in turn shows his or her appreciation by tipping. that's just how it has always worked. great service, great tip. crappy service, crappy tip. DEX if you really think that having a server running around at your beck and call for free is cool then you are the real c*nt.
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November 23, 2009
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There are a few other things that could be the cause of such bad service. From what I little I know about this case, the pub seems to be located near a college and if so, is probably staffed with students lacking any real experience in this type of work.
I would place most of the blame here on the kitchen. It can be a place of real chaos at times with orders being misplaced, servers taking meals that go with other orders, servers bickering amongst themselves over who did or didn't do whatever small tack to keep things running smoothly, staff sneaking out back to smoke, gossip, text, etc. In other words, little to no control of the situation by management. There should be someone in there with the duty to see that meals stay together and are served in the order in which they arrived in the kitchen.
I am a part owner in a small bar/grill, and see this all the time. It is hard to keep everyone happy. Some days we guess wrong and have too little staff for the number of patrons. Other days we have too many servers who then start moaning about not making enough in tips. Sometimes the kitchen really is swamped with orders, then two hours later we are all in each others' way in there.
Patrons, in general, are understanding when service is suffering. When we see that they have a legitimate complaint, we talk with the server privately to get the problem resolved right then and there. If an apology or comp to the customer is in order, it is done and hopefully, the situation is resolved or at least made bearable.
Other times, the customer is a true pain. Just last evening, I had a woman lie right to my face about why she should be served more quickly.
While it's true that a large group can put quite a strain on a small kitchen, the server or manager should explain that all the meals may not arrive at the same time, but an honest effort will be made to do so.
As far as this "mandatory" tip, I agree with others here. How do you redefine something that is voluntary into a requirement? In our facility, we don't even have a policy where large groups are made to automatically pay a charge like that. We just try to deal with the situation as best we can.
Another thing to look at here is the attitude that more and more people have these days. IT'S ALL ABOUT ME. I WANT MINE AND I WANT IT NOW.
I would place most of the blame here on the kitchen. It can be a place of real chaos at times with orders being misplaced, servers taking meals that go with other orders, servers bickering amongst themselves over who did or didn't do whatever small tack to keep things running smoothly, staff sneaking out back to smoke, gossip, text, etc. In other words, little to no control of the situation by management. There should be someone in there with the duty to see that meals stay together and are served in the order in which they arrived in the kitchen.
I am a part owner in a small bar/grill, and see this all the time. It is hard to keep everyone happy. Some days we guess wrong and have too little staff for the number of patrons. Other days we have too many servers who then start moaning about not making enough in tips. Sometimes the kitchen really is swamped with orders, then two hours later we are all in each others' way in there.
Patrons, in general, are understanding when service is suffering. When we see that they have a legitimate complaint, we talk with the server privately to get the problem resolved right then and there. If an apology or comp to the customer is in order, it is done and hopefully, the situation is resolved or at least made bearable.
Other times, the customer is a true pain. Just last evening, I had a woman lie right to my face about why she should be served more quickly.
While it's true that a large group can put quite a strain on a small kitchen, the server or manager should explain that all the meals may not arrive at the same time, but an honest effort will be made to do so.
As far as this "mandatory" tip, I agree with others here. How do you redefine something that is voluntary into a requirement? In our facility, we don't even have a policy where large groups are made to automatically pay a charge like that. We just try to deal with the situation as best we can.
Another thing to look at here is the attitude that more and more people have these days. IT'S ALL ABOUT ME. I WANT MINE AND I WANT IT NOW.
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November 22, 2009
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I would turn your question around and ask, on what planet does someone turn down a comp for $73 and then refuse to pay a $16 tip? Yeah yeah, I understand the principle of the thing and all, but they didn't even let the manager do the right thing. A bit of passive-aggressive theater if you ask me (if it did INDEED go down like that). It sounds like Max got the figures right - because many systems don't automatically readjust the service charge once it's applied (and it works both ways - if the server has forgotten to ring up something and adds it after the service charge , the service charge stays the same and doesn't go up - that's how it works on my restaurant's system). That doesn't mean that it couldn't have been removed by the manager though. While this pub seems to be screwup from top to bottom, these kids are getting a bit of a free ride as they acted like snotty, privileged sorority/frat kids when it came to negotiating with the ownership. I hope that getting arrested taught them as much as the bad publicity from this has taught the LeHigh's Pub's owners. Sometimes you've just got to give a little bit and have some sense of compromise. I'm guessing that the kids will learn this more and more as they get older. I hope so because, if they don't, they'll grow into an increasing slice of American consumers (I want what I want and I'll get what I want - OR ELSE). I see it in the restaurant that I work in more often than I'd like. And the pub owners might be able to take this lesson away as they lose this restaurant and try to start another...
...from both sides, a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face (and my late mom used to say).
...from both sides, a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face (and my late mom used to say).
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November 22, 2009
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What's really going on here? An 18% tip is only $13.14. So why are they being charged an extra $2.86? That would be a 21.9% tip.
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November 22, 2009
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$16 dollars is a 21.9% tip not a mere 18% as stated. An 18% tip is only $13.14. What's really going on here?
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November 22, 2009
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In this economy, the owner or the manager would risk this sort of bad press...? Squeezing pennies to waste dollars mentality! They like to make you think that a gratuity is mandatory.
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November 22, 2009
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In the world of food service, it appears that somehow over the years the concept of gratuity has in some warped twisted way become "mandatory". I've been to this place. It's ho hum at best. The treatment is reminiscent of the now defunct Tortilla Flats on the north side of town where the owner seemed like the most rude and disinterested guy that ever decided to get involved in a business that involves treating people nicely to maintain business. The arrest of folks for not paying a gratuity and for good cause is a combo of assinity on the part of the owner and some really stupid cops who acted "stupidly"... As I said, the place is ho hum to begin with. There are so many better places to frequent (Try Benner Street) Going here now? Ahhhh, no!
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November 22, 2009
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People keep saying its not the waitress' fault the food took so long. While that may be true, it IS the responsibility of the waitstaff to keep the patrons informed of what is going on with their order. You just can't disappear. This whole tipping thing gets my gourd! Tipping is optional, not mandatory and you will always get an occasional stiff. I hope other restaurants in the area are "listening" to the backlash of this incident. Totally ridiculous.
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November 21, 2009
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I ate there once a few months ago - Once too many as it turns out.... Really rude and non-existent service. I have no idea what all went down with the college kids, but it doesn't surprise me at all. The food was just fair for regular pub food (kinda hard to screw up burgers and wings). The main thing that upset me was that we were fed 'one at a time'! We went there together and we wanted to eat together. Instead, my friends watched me eat & 20 minutes later, I watched them eat! Really lousy. Don't go!
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November 21, 2009
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The pub should get charged for 'attempted theft' for over charging the tip $3+....what if the customers figured out the math and refused to pay the extra $3, would the police still have been called?...and if the manager initiated all this, why hasn't the owner stepped in and dropped the charges, fire the manager and waitress to save the business' reputation?!?!
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November 21, 2009
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TIPS To Insure Prompt Service - what is so hard about understanding that? Maybe they should have left the tip in the form of a note that reads "find another line of work, cause you're not too good at this one!! I was a server in the restaurant business for many years - you get stiffed every once in awhile. S**t happens, but I NEVER would have put a mandatory tip on ANYONES bill!!I made really good money and in many years, had only ONE complaint to my boss.My daughter is now a server in a very fast paced restaurant in Myrtle Beach, SC. If her service was bad, she wouldn't make enough to eat around here. You might as well close your doors, Lehigh Pub. I don't think you'll have too many repeat customers or ones that haven't seen the reviews!!
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November 21, 2009
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This is a good example of exactly whats wrong with the implied expectation of a tip.
1) Restaurant owners should pay their staff what they are worth
2) Return business is its own reward
3) Anyone who sticks out their hand for a tip is a sissy who's too scared to ask their boss for a raise so they beg it off you like a leper
4) Lehighs are c*nts, end of story
1) Restaurant owners should pay their staff what they are worth
2) Return business is its own reward
3) Anyone who sticks out their hand for a tip is a sissy who's too scared to ask their boss for a raise so they beg it off you like a leper
4) Lehighs are c*nts, end of story
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November 21, 2009
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Well I know for sure now I will be going to that eatery/bar.I hope he wins the case on theft charges...and the customers refusing the comp for the food--what idiots!!!!
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November 21, 2009
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Hungryandoutraged, are you nuts? Or just one of the namby-pamby sheep we seem to be breeding these days who just goes along and obeys whatever onerous crap is foisted on us by anybody faintly resembling an authority figure? Hungry, maybe; but where's your outrage? I can't see it. Your words:
"Groups of a certain size (sometimes 6 or more, or 8 or more) have gratuity AUTOMATICALLY added to the bill. This is just part of the cost of dining out."
And you just roll over for this???? Screw that. Anyplace that demands, I say, DEMANDS (read EXTORTS) a tip at any time for any reason ought to be left to wither in the sun with nary a customer ever again. The damn gall of it!
"Groups of a certain size (sometimes 6 or more, or 8 or more) have gratuity AUTOMATICALLY added to the bill. This is just part of the cost of dining out."
And you just roll over for this???? Screw that. Anyplace that demands, I say, DEMANDS (read EXTORTS) a tip at any time for any reason ought to be left to wither in the sun with nary a customer ever again. The damn gall of it!
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November 21, 2009
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This could get ugly for the pubowner. He could be looking s civil suit, fraud, tax evasion, and making a false report of a crime on top of a public relations nightmare. When will small time business owners learn that they have to follow the law? Since the police officers violated clearly established law they could be sued as well. Gratuities are not mandantory.
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November 21, 2009
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Yelp removed hundreds of negative reviews related to the incident.
I'm wondering at what point is it okay to just walk out on crummy service. An hour wait for food? Longer?
I'm wondering at what point is it okay to just walk out on crummy service. An hour wait for food? Longer?
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November 20, 2009
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I'd really like to hear the owner's side of the story. All accounts seem to paraphrase his or her position, with no real direct quotes. It could be that the owner is the real victim here, and the idiot bartender has just ruined the business. That wouldn't be fair.
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November 20, 2009
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Shame on Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, PA 18015. Never go to Lehigh Pub or similar restaurants. It's truly a disgrace as a fellow Pennsylvanian for this type of conduct. Simply outrageous !!!
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November 20, 2009
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Whatever,Don.
gratuity [grəˈtjuːɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. (Business / Commerce) a gift or reward, usually of money, for services rendered; tip
2. something given without claim or obligation
3. (Military) Military a financial award granted for long or meritorious service
gratuity [grəˈtjuːɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. (Business / Commerce) a gift or reward, usually of money, for services rendered; tip
2. something given without claim or obligation
3. (Military) Military a financial award granted for long or meritorious service
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November 20, 2009
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Entrepreneurial FAIL!
Sorry these folks had to get arrested, but isn't it nice to see justice served - in this case the comeuppance of an establishment run by someone who is obviously a fool and an ass. Bye bye, Lehigh.
Sorry these folks had to get arrested, but isn't it nice to see justice served - in this case the comeuppance of an establishment run by someone who is obviously a fool and an ass. Bye bye, Lehigh.
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November 20, 2009
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Absolutely! I don't know how many people here own food service businesses, but my husband does, and we agree that the manager's action was absolutely STUPID. How much business are they going to lose because of this stupid decision? THE CUSTOMER IS KING, especially in times like these.
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November 20, 2009
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As a student at Lehigh. eveyone KNOWS the service is shitty. But that it is the students that staff The Pub. This is ridiculous. You walk up to the bar if your food is taking too long, or TAKE THE COMP'D MEAL. WTf?!?!?!?!?!
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November 20, 2009
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$73 was the bill with tax, which means the bill was
about $68.87 before the 6% Pennsylvania sales tax.
18% of 68.87 is $12.36, not $16. So, how do they come
up with $16?
Simple, they are fraudulantly using the
bill, plus tax, PLUS the "mandadory tip". 68.87 +$4.13 sales tax, + $16 =$89.00. 18% of 89 is $16.
They are in effect demanding to be "tipped" for the
sales tax charged and demanding that they be "tipped"
a percentage of the tip. Actually, they calculated
a 23.5% "tip", not 18%.
These people belong in the banking business or on wall street, or at least runninbg a credit card company...
their talents are wasted on running such a two bit
flea bag greasy spoon. Perhaps Goldman Sachs or somesuch
can snatch them up, add them to their "talent pool"
as it were when the Lehigh Pub closes its doors.
Had they worked for a prestigious Wall Sreet outfit,
they surely would be in line for a really hefty bonus
having demonstrated such "talent", such business acumen.
about $68.87 before the 6% Pennsylvania sales tax.
18% of 68.87 is $12.36, not $16. So, how do they come
up with $16?
Simple, they are fraudulantly using the
bill, plus tax, PLUS the "mandadory tip". 68.87 +$4.13 sales tax, + $16 =$89.00. 18% of 89 is $16.
They are in effect demanding to be "tipped" for the
sales tax charged and demanding that they be "tipped"
a percentage of the tip. Actually, they calculated
a 23.5% "tip", not 18%.
These people belong in the banking business or on wall street, or at least runninbg a credit card company...
their talents are wasted on running such a two bit
flea bag greasy spoon. Perhaps Goldman Sachs or somesuch
can snatch them up, add them to their "talent pool"
as it were when the Lehigh Pub closes its doors.
Had they worked for a prestigious Wall Sreet outfit,
they surely would be in line for a really hefty bonus
having demonstrated such "talent", such business acumen.
,
November 20, 2009
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Personally I think both parties are in the wrong, but the business owner is going to suffer more than the patrons.
I can understand being upset about terrible service. But you have to have some common sense... if its very busy, and the kitchen is taking too long, that's not the waitresse's fault. If they were that upset, they should have asked to talk to the manager about being comped or whatnot, instead of just taking it upon themselves to stiff the waitstaff.
Also the news bit I saw stated that this was a large group. Groups of a certain size (sometimes 6 or more, or 8 or more) have gratuity AUTOMATICALLY added to the bill. This is just part of the cost of dining out. If you found the service you be exceptional you should leave more than the mandatory gratuity.
Perhaps these people were upset, but that happens in the restaurant business and the owner should not have had them arrested. That was just stupid on his part. He has brought himself so much bad publicity... was that worth $16? He sounds like an arrogant jerk that wanted to get even with these people. And I'm sure many people in the restaurant business fantasize about doing that to the customers who are treat them badly, but if you're going to be in the business, you have to expect a certain amount of abuse from customers, no matter how hard you try to please them.
I can understand being upset about terrible service. But you have to have some common sense... if its very busy, and the kitchen is taking too long, that's not the waitresse's fault. If they were that upset, they should have asked to talk to the manager about being comped or whatnot, instead of just taking it upon themselves to stiff the waitstaff.
Also the news bit I saw stated that this was a large group. Groups of a certain size (sometimes 6 or more, or 8 or more) have gratuity AUTOMATICALLY added to the bill. This is just part of the cost of dining out. If you found the service you be exceptional you should leave more than the mandatory gratuity.
Perhaps these people were upset, but that happens in the restaurant business and the owner should not have had them arrested. That was just stupid on his part. He has brought himself so much bad publicity... was that worth $16? He sounds like an arrogant jerk that wanted to get even with these people. And I'm sure many people in the restaurant business fantasize about doing that to the customers who are treat them badly, but if you're going to be in the business, you have to expect a certain amount of abuse from customers, no matter how hard you try to please them.
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November 20, 2009
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Mandatory gratuity is an oxymoron. If they say mandatory service charge, this story would have a totally different outcome.
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November 20, 2009
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Worked in the business (not as server) but know that a smart owner will not make a fuss over something like that. However, I have worked for a jerk who would confront customers for asking for extra salad dressing, etc. Sounds like his twin. I hope he gets sued and I hope he never runs a bar again.
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November 20, 2009
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Donlad, you must be a waiter/waitress.
If service is bad, no tip. That simple.
If service is bad, no tip. That simple.
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November 20, 2009
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The case Leslie Pope and John Wagner of PA being arrested for not paying a TIP is similar to a no TIP arrest that happened over five years, in Lake George NY. The Warren County DA dropped the charges because of an old federal court ruling that stated TIPs are voluntary. I believe victims then sued the restaurant or the Lake George police for false arrest. In addition the IRS audited the restaurant because a TIP that is enforced is a service charge, which is taxable to the restaurant even is the money is paid to the employees.
Some of the stories about this are still on-line if you google “Lake George TIP arrest”.
Some of the stories about this are still on-line if you google “Lake George TIP arrest”.
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November 20, 2009
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Since when is a tip mandatory? Tips are to be paid at the discretion of the consumer. While they may normally be paid, they by no means have to be paid.
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November 20, 2009
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The gratuity is never optional. I hate people who stiff waiters especially on large annoying groups.
Never been a waiter but I always treat them well regardless of circumstances.
Never been a waiter but I always treat them well regardless of circumstances.
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November 20, 2009
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That was a "claim" by the owner. The couple said that this claim was false about the comping of food. Max, you are assuming the amount of the bill, that was not proven by either party. Fact is, if you have bad service to the point in which the people are complaining it should be a no issue and they should take it up with the staff. This is a business and the $16 just cost them hundreds if not thousands in business alone.
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November 20, 2009
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Please note that other sources state the owner said "some" of the food was comped. I suspect that their bill was $105 ($89 + $16 gratuity), then when the customers complained, the idiot bartender comped them $16 dollars worth of food instead of removing the gratuity. This would reduce the bill to $89 ($73 + $16 gratuity), which would still look like they were being forced to give a tip. So they paid the $73 as was stated in the news story, and fought the rest.
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November 19, 2009
